What Others Are Saying

I was reading through some comments on the Above the Law blog.  I will not link directly to it because many of the comments are mean and filled with foul language.  Maybe I shouldn’t have been reading there at all, but there were several comments made on a post called Countdown to California’s Prop 8 Showdown that were particularly interesting and thought provoking.  Just thought I’d share:

1—all the no on 8 folks, your problem boils down to this — not a single one of you would have passed a logic and rhetoric class freshman year of college. you assume that you have a constitutional right to do whatever it is that you want to do, to “be who you are,” but such an assumption is ridiculous. …what makes you special? you’ve got one leg to stand on: being sexually attracted to members of your own gender … is palatable enough to debauched post-modern America that you hope to slip past what remains of moral censure.

it’s nice to sit around and think that we all have a constitutional right, founded under equal protection, to self-actualization — but we don’t, and what’s more you know it. so you sling mud and call anyone who points this out a bigot. bigotry implies malice and a somehow incorrect basis for the beliefs to which you object, but you haven’t told us why homosexuality is something that should be protected.

that’s the sad secret y’all try to keep hidden: there’s no difference between your policy stance and plain old hedonism: I should be allowed to do whatever it is that I want to do. this isn’t a concept enshrined in any governing law which courts or lawyers are bound to respect, but rather a political judgment about what government policies you support. So man up and admit the obvious — you want to be “yourself,” society disagrees. the rest of us think you ought to tamp down your appetites, and the only way you’ll ever get to pursue your own definition of pleasure is through the courts because the legislatures won’t hear your petition. If you win, mazel tov, really, but cut the **** about it being a moral victory and a great day for civil rights. it’s a great day for relativism, and that’s it.

2—If you read the In re Marriage Cases decision, the (slim) majority reached its “constitutional” decision by interpolating up from “lower” statutes, such as anti-discrimination laws and, ironically, civil union statutes. Yet, at the same time, it refused to give equal dignity to Prop. 22. In other words, the Court derived a higher-level rule from lower-level laws. Justice Baxter, writing for the dissenting minority, identified the problem with the majority’s analysis as follows:

“The majority’s mode of analysis is particularly troubling. The majority relies heavily on the Legislature’s adoption of progressive civil rights protections for gays and lesbians to find a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. In effect, the majority gives the Legislature indirectly power that body does not directly possess to amend the Constitution and repeal an initiative statute.”

3—Understanding what the Supreme Court did, and why, is important to understanding why this proposition is not just about “equality.” It also is about separation of powers, the appropriate role of the judiciary, and about the freedom of society to decide for itself what relationships it wants to promote through the legal construct of “marriage.”

4—At what point do I become a bigot? I will be honest, although I have other reasons for supporting my position; my first reason for supporting Proposition 8 is religious beliefs. But I believe that it is okay to let our individual morals guide our voting. As such, I support the proposition in the same way that I would support a number of other issues that I feel are morally related. If there was a measure legalizing prostitution, I would be concerned about its impact on society—but my first reason for opposing the measure would be moral and religious beliefs. Similarly I would oppose measures expanding gambling, legalizing recreational drugs, or any other vice. It would seem that each of these measure would “infringe on somebody else’s rights.” After all, doesn’t prostitution involve a consensual interaction, and doesn’t the prostitute have a “right” to determine what she wants to do with her body. Still, I would oppose such a measure legalizing prostitution, because I believe that it is morally wrong. Here I stand on election eve, in support of Prop. 8, and thus have been labeled a bigot and a homophobe because I plan to vote in accordance with my beliefs.

5—YES ON 8.

If you want to make up something new that’s like being an Eagle Scout, but for girls, then call it something different. Don’t change what being an Eagle Scout is for all those people who previously received it.

If you are gay and you want to make up some new sort of union that’s protected by the state, then do it but call it something different.

YES ON 8. -Big3 Associate, Los Angeles

6—I’m a big law associate – voting YES on Prop 8 to protect and restore traditional marriage in California. If we’re talking about “rights” – in California same sex couples have all of the same rights as married couples.

This is one of those unique issues in which Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John McCain, Sarah Palin and most of America agrees:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Hmdcy_lvQ&e

7—I don’t have a birth certificate because I was born outside of the US (to American parents). Instead, I have a consul report. I have the same rights as other citizens, but the government calls my document something else.

I want the right to have the government call my document a birth certificate. Anyone who doesn’t agree with me should be disbarred for failing to uphold the constitutional principles of fairness, equality and justice.

8—The truth is, liberals don’t like to feel “guilty”. If society has any sort of norm that says that you should be married before you start having sex, or before having kids, or whatever, and they don’t want to do it, then their goal will be to destroy that norm. They don’t believe in sin because if they did they would have to feel guilty. They don’t believe that life could possibly start in the womb because if they did they would be murderers. So if they can create social norms that remove those beliefs, they can live a much more blissful life in their platonic caves.

9—These people don’t really want to be married. Look at how many gay couples in California have NOT gotten married. It’s incredible. This isn’t about people wanting to be married. It’s to get rid of the idea of marriage as something with an ounce of holiness left in it. It’s already been whittled down to practically nothing with rampant divorce, abuse, people who do not honor their marriages, but this they hope will be the final death to the idea and the end of guilt.

10—“The adoption of same-sex marriage would topple a long-standing system of shared values. It would change assumptions and expectations by which society has long operated–that men and women are not interchangeable, for example, and that the central reason for marriage is to provide children with mothers and fathers in a safe and loving environment. . . .My foreboding is that a generation after same-sex marriage is legalized, families will be even less stable than they are today, the divorce rate will be even higher and children will be even less safe. To express such a dire warning is to be labeled an alarmist, a reactionary, a bigot and worse . . . .but it is not bigotry to try to learn from history, or to point out that some institutions have stood the test of time because they are the only ones that can stand the test of time.”
Jeff Jacoby in Boston Globe

11—I am a straight pregnant married woman. My brother is gay. If my brother married another man, would that threaten my own marriage? ….wait for it….NOPE! Straights will continue to get married, have babies and generally live their lives. GROW THE **** UP. Vote NO TO H8TE-Vote NO on 8.

12—Here’s a different angle:

I am a straight pregnant married woman. My brother enjoys sex with prostitutes. If my brother has sex with a prostitute, would that threaten my own marriage? ….wait for it….NOPE! People that have sex for free will continue to get married, have babies and generally live their lives… yet we as a society have decided that prostitution is not acceptable and not something we want to promote. GROW THE **** UP. Vote YES TO SOCIETAL STANDARDS – Vote YES on 8.